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Knightwriter- 06-29-2008

what kind of loser abandons hundreds of years of science and the scientific method for some overpriced placebos that some self-deluded nut sells over the internet? When any inventor has ever invented anything huge he has met fierce resistence conventionally, at least for a time. They always call it 'crackpot.' Now, I am as pissed as anyone that Alex has not been proactive in seeking hardcore proof. But there is some proof in that the majority of the people who use the rings feel better and those who use gp and scf for an extended period of time do start to look better. Myself and others have looked at this and although we would like much better proof we decided to give it a whirl as the benefit far outweighs the potential loss. The potential loss being 50-100 bucks and no risk of side effects or bad results as not one person has suffered ill health as a result of these inventions when followed as prescribed. I gave gp and scf a 2 month trial and if I got results I would continue and so forth. I've now completed 3 months and the results continue, definite undeniable results like looking better and better. So that is a result and constitutes experimentation and a positive result. That is good science in anyone's language. That's one scientific result with a positive outcome. Far from abandoning science I decided to work around Alex's disregard for giving people some proper scientific results and create my own personal scientific test. You see instead of keeping an open mind or better yet giving it a proper go you instead just come on here all the time and say it is all a crock of shit. Now why would you come on regularly just to do that unless you are a nerd with no life? Most people are here because they use the inventions and are interested in other results and developments. And what you also fail to realise is science has not been abandoned by those who try it, quite the opposite in fact, they realise there is very little science actually, only the little personal unofficial studies that give some clues as to what more large scale results might yield... and so they do there own personal scientific study. You do not have any science to have such a firm opinion that it is a fraud. While I wouldn't lambast anyone for choosing not to take the risk of trying it, as the proof is small and very much based on testimonial or individual proofs, somebody who comes on here with nothing but a very negative viewpoint, despite no evidence to back it up and some to the contrary, and is continually abusive, is just an annoying muppet with no life.

frank2008- 06-29-2008

Now, I am as pissed as anyone that Alex has not been proactive in seeking hardcore proof. But there is some proof in that the majority of the people who use the rings feel better and those who use gp and scf for an extended period of time do start to look better. I gave gp and scf a 2 month trial and if I got results I would continue and so forth. I've now completed 3 months and the results continue, definite undeniable results like looking better and better. Please can you post before-after pics soon? thanks

Eric Von Manstein- 06-29-2008

Frank, didn't you pretty much worship Meier? Why do you now know that he's a phony? http://www.theparacast.com/podcasts/paracast_060711.mp3

skinbeautonatural- 06-29-2008

YOU GO KNIGHTWRITER! WOOOO! Hell yeah, finally someone who agrees with me.

CerealRapist- 06-30-2008

science means that the guy making the ridiculous claim is the one who needs the proof, not the guy with thousands of years of scientific method behind him. alex claims that the rings make you IMMORTAL. Now, I want you to show me ONE PERSON who has lived to an unusual age wearing his device. I want you to show me one piece of EVIDENCE that shows that his rings are responsible for some kind of PHYSICAL CHANGE in a person. None of this "I feel like it made me, like, younger and stuff" shit.

Dr. Phelps- 07-01-2008

But there is some proof in that the majority of the people who use the rings feel better and those who use gp and scf for an extended period of time do start to look better. How did you come to this conclusion about the thousands of people who have tried Alex`s products? We havent had anywhere near the response on this board that would indicate thousands of people are having their appearance dramatically changed. Its like the true believers live in a very small contained reality that only exists on this board. Where do you hear all the talk and excitement about these life changing things that are supposed to be happening with the product? Nowhere other than here. Where is the national attention? If you believe that thousands of peoples appearances are changing and that it wouldnt spread around by word of mouth alone then you are fooling yourself. But thats the name of the game here.

v71- 07-01-2008

I had physical changes. Nose firmer , eyebrows raised, skin more pale , cleaned a kind of ear infection. Now you will ask for photos , i don't have clear photos of before and after, because i never took a photo of myself in close vicinity to see such details, and second, i don't want to put my face on internet

frank2008- 07-01-2008

But there is some proof in that the majority of the people who use the rings feel better and those who use gp and scf for an extended period of time do start to look better. How did you come to this conclusion about the thousands of people who have tried Alex`s products? We havent had anywhere near the response on this board that would indicate thousands of people are having their appearance dramatically changed. Its like the true believers live in a very small contained reality that only exists on this board. Where do you hear all the talk and excitement about these life changing things that are supposed to be happening with the product? Nowhere other than here. Where is the national attention? If you believe that thousands of peoples appearances are changing and that it wouldnt spread around by word of mouth alone then you are fooling yourself. But thats the name of the game here. Drphelp, changes with gp are small and need month of daily use. Not something that can be widespread on the news soon. Probably when new faster "chi flush" will be ready to order (november 2008) will start to hear about Alex Chiu on BBC, CNN and such.

DrSchadenfreude- 07-01-2008

Lmao, Franco, you are directly contradicting that which Alex says about his own products. He continually reasserts how fast working they are, how in a week or two he may be better looking than the manager, how in a week he'll be a male model, how they heal in one day like normal people heal in a month.

Knightwriter- 07-01-2008

But there is some proof in that the majority of the people who use the rings feel better and those who use gp and scf for an extended period of time do start to look better. How did you come to this conclusion about the thousands of people who have tried Alex`s products? We havent had anywhere near the response on this board that would indicate thousands of people are having their appearance dramatically changed. Its like the true believers live in a very small contained reality that only exists on this board. Where do you hear all the talk and excitement about these life changing things that are supposed to be happening with the product? Nowhere other than here. Where is the national attention? If you believe that thousands of peoples appearances are changing and that it wouldnt spread around by word of mouth alone then you are fooling yourself. But thats the name of the game here. The name of the game here is that some people assume one thing after another based on a belief of it being superb or a con, which is bollocks whichever side you are on. And I am not relying on response, which isn't exactly science, but more to do with psychology of how many people would think it is even possible and stick at it for months. I don't believe except that which I have tested and seen in others. I have personally changed but I don't want my face on the internet and associated with how Alex runs his mouth and business. But I do see objective changes in others, like more proportionate faces, more symmetry and better looking features and mainly looking LEANER. If I don't want to send pictures then I'd imagine many don't want to either. Alex is just his own worst enemy for how he runs his business and for not getting proof, studies and research set up. And in my experience people are very reluctant to give testimonials anyway, not to mind to a business run like this, and that Alex has so many does look good for him, but it doesn't constitute proof either and I didn't claim it so, just that it was a tick for conceivable benefit in my eyes. Not a major point by any means and not what I would use for major reference. By the way what kind of test have you done? Wore them a few nights didn't 'feel' anything and so assumed it was all rubbish? That hardly constitutes backing up a firmly shut mind, now does it?

DrSchadenfreude- 07-01-2008

Knightwriter is seeming exceptionally reasonable, I must say haha. More so than Franco with his insistence that a handful of testimonials are proof and his "140 IQ".

CerealRapist- 07-02-2008

here's an article you guys should read. It's very relevant. This person who started this company is basically another Alex Chiu, but she's just honest with herself and to her customers. NEW YORK TIMES By CHRISTIE ASCHWANDEN Published: May 27, 2008 Jennifer Buettner was taking care of her young niece when the idea struck her. The child had a nagging case of hypochondria, and Ms. Buettner's mother-in-law, a nurse, instructed her to give the girl a Motrin tablet. "She told me it was the most benign thing I could give," Ms. Buettner said. "I thought, why give her any drug? Why not give her a placebo?" Studies have repeatedly shown that placebos can produce improvements for many problems like depression, pain and high blood pressure, and Ms. Buettner reasoned that she could harness the placebo effect to help her niece. She sent her husband to the drugstore to buy placebo pills. When he came back empty handed, she said, "It was one of those 'aha!' moments when everything just clicks." Ms. Buettner, 40, who lives in Severna Park, Md., with her husband, 7-month-old son and 22-month-old twins, envisioned a children's placebo tablet that would empower parents to do something tangible for minor ills and reduce the unnecessary use of antibiotics and other medicines. With the help of her husband, Dennis, she founded a placebo company, and, without a hint of irony, named it Efficacy Brands. Its chewable, cherry-flavored dextrose tablets, Obecalp, for placebo spelled backward, goes on sale on June 1 at the Efficacy Brands Web site. Bottles of 50 tablets will sell for $5.95. The Buettners have plans for a liquid version, too. Because they contain no active drug, the pills will not be sold as a drug under Food and Drug Administration rules. They will be marketed as dietary supplements, meaning they can be sold at groceries, drugstores and discount stores without a prescription. "This is designed to have the texture and taste of actual medicine so it will trick kids into thinking that they're taking something," Ms. Buettner said. "Then their brain takes over, and they say, 'Oh, I feel better.' " But some experts question the premise behind the tablets. "Placebos are unpredictable," said Dr. Howard Brody, a medical ethicist and family physician at the University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston. "Each and every time you give a placebo you see a dramatic response among some people and no response in others." He added that there was no way to predict who would respond. "The idea that we can use a placebo as a general treatment method," Dr. Brody said, "strikes me as inappropriate." Ms. Buettner does not spell out the conditions that her pills could treat. As a parent, she said, "you'll know when Obecalp is necessary." Franklin G. Miller, a bioethicist at the National Institutes of Health, is skeptical. "As a parent of three now grown children," he said, "I can't think of a single instance where I'd want to give a placebo." Much of the power of the placebo effect seems to lie in the belief that it will work, and some experts question whether this expectation can be sustained if the person giving it knows it is a sham. Most clinical trials that have shown benefits from placebos are double blinded. Neither the recipient nor the giver knows that the pills are fake. "For this to work really well as placebo, you cannot let the parents know that it's a sugar pill," Dr. Brody said. "You have to lie to the parents, too, if you expect them to fool their kids." At least one study has shown that placebos can be effective even when the patients know that they are inert. In a study in 2007, 70 children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder were asked to reduce their medications gradually by replacing some of their drugs with placebo pills. The children and their parents were explicitly told that these "dose extender" pills contained no drug. After three months, 80 percent of the children reported that the placebo had helped them. Although that study used a placebo in a different context from Obecalp, it did suggest that deception might not be necessary for a placebo to work, said the senior author, Gail Geller, a bioethicist at the Berman Institute of Bioethics at Johns Hopkins. Even if Obecalp proved helpful, some doctors worry that giving children "medicine" for every ache and pain teaches that every ailment has a cure in a bottle. "Kids could grow up thinking that the only way to get better is by taking a pill," Dr. Brody said. If they do that, he added, they will not learn that a minor complaint like a scraped knee or a cold can improve on its own. Dr. David Spiegel, a psychiatrist who studies placebos at the Stanford School of Medicine, said conditioning children to reach for relief in a pill could also make them easy targets for quacks and pharmaceutical pitches later. "They used to sell candied cigarettes to kids to get them used to the idea of playing with cigarettes," he said. Ms. Buettner acknowledged that "we expect controversy with this," but she added, "We are not promoting drug use." Despite his misgivings, Dr. Brody predicted that Obecalp would entice many parents. "Anybody who has ever been up in the middle of the night with a crying child would be tempted to try something like this," he said. "You're so desperate for anything that could quiet down your poor, miserable kid." Doctors themselves have been known to dole out placebos to overwhelmed parents, said Dr. Brian Olshansky, a physician at the University of Iowa Hospitals. A screaming child with an earache may leave the emergency room with a prescription for antibiotics, even though the drug will not speed recovery and could potentially cause harm. Ms. Buettner said her pill could satisfy that need while reducing potential harms from unnecessary medications. "The overprescription of drugs is a serious problem, and I think there needs to be an alternative," she said. Some experts question whether an alternative should involve deception. "I don't like the idea of parents lying to their kids," said Dr. Steven Joffe, a pediatrician and bioethicist at the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute in Boston. "It makes me squeamish." Dr. Geller, the bioethicist, agrees that parents should not deceive their children. But she added that a parent who truly believed in the power of the placebo was not really being deceptive. "In principle," she said, "I don't have a problem with the thoughtful use of placebo. The starting premise and your own belief about what you're doing matters a lot." Dr. Brody said parents did not need a pill to induce the placebo effect. Mothers have long promised to "kiss it and make it better" and it is that type of placebo children really yearn for, he said. "Does a sick child really want X-rays or M.R.I.'s or the latest antibiotic?" he asked. "No. All the sick child wants is comforting." from: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/27/health/27plac.html?_r=4&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1211875302-l19WESxtejqgfMs0699Hzw&oref=slogin&oref=slogin